Fast Forward With Pandora VP of Product, Chris Becherer

I was in Austin, Texas, last calendar week for SXSW Interactive, where I had the chance to sit down with a number of tech industry execs for my video series Fast Forward. First upward is Chris Becherer, VP of Product at streaming music service Pandora. We talked about new product development, the time to come of streaming music, and some of the challenges Pandora faces in the industry. Check out our chat in the video and transcript below.

Dan Costa: Let'due south start off with the news that yous appear today which is that Pandora has a new premium production.

Very large mean solar day for Pandora, very exciting. Yeah, just today we announced that Pandora Premium, which is our new $9.99 subscription tier that combines the best of personalized internet radio, which Pandora has prepare the standard for for many years equally yous know, with a total on-demand feature set. I used to run Product at Rdio, and I came over in the acquisition in late 2022, and since so we've been difficult at piece of work on redefining what a $10 music service should exist. Nosotros've done that, and and so, super excited to be rolling it out...to our entire user base over the next several weeks. Then you lot'll see a pretty big marketing campaign and a lot of cool exciting things throughout the spring, as nosotros iterate on the product and make information technology even amend.

Explicate what on-need features really include. People are used to subscribing to Pandora. Information technology'due south basically an internet radio station. They don't have total control over what they're gong to hear adjacent, but it tunes to their interests. Then you can pay $five and get no advertisements. You're going a step beyond that.

That's correct. Pandora has been around for over 10 years. Traditionally known as a radio service, a personalized radio service. It has really set the standard for what a personalized radio service should be; that thumb upwardly, pollex downwardly, everybody's very familiar with that UI. Pandora pioneered that. Throughout those 10 years, we've built up a huge audition. Nosotros have eighty million monthly users here in the U.s.a.. We have a hundred one thousand thousand quarterly users and we really have 160 million people at present in the US that have thumbed upwards at least i vocal. That'southward exactly half of America, latest demography, 320 one thousand thousand, so exactly half of the state. We have some agreement of your taste.

Fast Forward Bug Art Over the last couple years, so I say, "That's great," and not only is information technology a lot of people only they're listening a lot too, average of 22 hours a month. When you lot add together up all that engagement across all of our listeners, we're the number 1 mobile app in terms of date in the The states, which not a lot of people know; even more than Facebook. In that location's more date on Pandora than even Facebook.

Things have been great. We've grown this huge audience and really built a huge proper noun for ourselves in music, but over the by few years, we have been hearing a lot more from our user base that they want control over the feel. They want more fine command over their listening. To reply to that, the company'south been undergoing this transformation, mostly under the hood, over the final couple years and the Rdio acquisition was a part of that. Some other huge function of that was doing direct deals with the record industry. Traditionally Pandora didn't have those, but at present we have directly relationships and partnerships with all the publishers and all the tape labels that enable us to do more than interesting things in the product and through the features.

The first bits of that hit users last fall in the form of Pandora Plus. Pandora Plus launched in Oct, and Pandora Plus, $4.99, advertisement free, as y'all mentioned, merely also the power to replay songs and mind to music offline. Those features have been doing phenomenally well. Users dearest that additional control over radio, just we wanted to go beyond that. Really, all of that under the hood work that we've been doing has been to set the table for this moment which is pairing that awesome pollex up, thumb downward personalized radio feel, which we still have, and Pandora Premium with the ability to listen to any song I want on demand, to create my own playlists and then I tin heed in whatever order I want, and build an experience that seamlessly transitions y'all between that lean back radio and that lean forward on demands.

No other service has actually done that. Simply about everybody else has thought of over here equally a radio service, or over hither as an on demand service, and so we accept a lot of people that use Pandora very regularly that will become somewhere else to listen to a song on demand.

To bring all of those elements together into 1 package, you lot unlock more than the sum of its parts. There's a lot of cool things that happen when you get from radio to on demand and back. Everybody has the appetite for both. I think it used to be thought of in the industry that there was radio listeners, lean back people, coincidental, that didn't really want to curate their experience, then hard cadre music nerds. In reality almost people are somewhere on a spectrum.

That can alter over the course of a night, over the grade of a week.

Your context, right? Even the most hard core music fan every now and then is going to want to set it and forget it. They're going to want to plough on the radio and just let the car do the work. If y'all're making dinner, if you're driving, something like that. On the other manus, my mom, who'south a huge Pandora fan and has been for a long time, occasionally will want to mind to a specific Billie Holiday track, and, for the offset time now with Pandora Premium, she tin can do that.

We think that users are on the spectrum. It changes on context, exactly how you said. Nosotros think Pandora Premium is the most flexible of the music experiences and the most simple, the easiest to use, then we can meet you wherever you are on that spectrum.

The streaming music market'southward super competitive, some behemothic competitors on the market, only it seems to me at that place's then much value in having that history, having all that data on the users' preferences and being able to customize the service in real fourth dimension. How important is that data for Pandora and are in that location any things you can do with that data other than simply make better radio stations?

A great question and information technology really hits at the hallmark differentiator of Pandora Premium. Nosotros think that ... I think it'southward more often than not accustomed that we're the all-time at that song to song recommendations in radio, and we're leveraging all of that noesis, all of that information, to practice interesting things in Premium. If we intermission down what really are those competitive strengths, what is that when we say data, what do nosotros mean?

We're actually combining two big data sets. The outset is all the data that we know about the musical universe. Coming from Rdio, this has been the thing that I've been most impressed with Pandora. We've been undertaking this effort called the Music Genome Projection which yous may have heard about. A 10-year effort to analyze millions and millions of songs based on over 450 different attributes. We have musicians, musicologists on staff with headphones all day long analyzing these songs in a much more than nuanced way than a machine could. You get these actually unusual but interesting song pairings based on that kind of analysis. We have a tremendous agreement of the music.

The 2d data fix that we have is, what you're referring to, is this tremendous corporeality of information that we have on our users. Nosotros're now upwardly to 75 billion thumbs recorded across all of Pandora, and then far more signal than whatsoever other service has been able to accumulate, and then what that enables u.s. to practice is larn your tastes. We combine all of that interesting music genome project style assay with everything we know nigh yous, sprinkle on some data scientific discipline on the height, and we can really come up with some interesting recommendations that other services can't compete with.

With Premium, what we want to practise is take that out of the station and bring that into other places. I'll requite you just one awesome instance. Playlists are something that are very, very pop in on demand services. A playlist is different than a station. A station is never ending. It's steerable based on your thumbs. It'south more similar an old school radio station in that it just keeps going. A playlist is a more detached finite bundle. You take control over the order. It's got a first, a center, and an cease. You lot tin see all the tracks.

It's also got a social component where people can share playlists.

Yous tin share playlists.

Sharing stations is non quite as unique.

A niggling different. Yep, exactly. In that location is a personality in playlists that's a niggling bit different. Everybody wants to create playlists on these services. That's why many people subscribe to them, but building playlists is a lot of work for a lot of users. Specially the blazon of user that is really engaged in Pandora.

I never build playlists.

Information technology's too much work. Interesting stat from Rdio, over 50 percent of our user generated playlists were fewer than five songs. We called them the playlist orphans. Information technology makes sense. You come up with two or three tracks under a common theme, like work out, or report, or whatever it is, and and so afterward that information technology starts to experience like work. You run out of steam. That playlist rots in your drove and it but slows everything downwardly. We desire to relieve the orphans. We're making playlists, not work lists, is ane of our taglines for Pandora Premium.

My favorite characteristic, we have a couple features that assist the endeavor of playlist creation, but my favorite one, which really speaks to what Pandora's all about, simplicity, effortlessness. Nosotros continue coming back to those two designs principles a lot. We want to be simple and effortless. We have a single push button, which nosotros tin prove you, a single button in the UI that, all you demand is ane vocal in a playlist; you striking this button called Add Like Songs and Pandora will analyze every song in the playlist, whether it's one song or 300 songs, and will return a fix of tracks that are relevant to the playlist but as well personal to yous, personalized to you.

If you've thumbed upwardly or thumbed downwards a particular artist, fifty-fifty if it'due south relevant for that playlist, we notwithstanding wouldn't put it in at that place. With just a few taps, you lot can quickly build a playlist. Y'all can swipe to delete a few things. We're leveraging in a very direct mode, the Music Genome Project and putting the power of all those algorithms and all that information assay in your hands to curate exactly the fashion you want. Really, really cool feature.

I recollect information technology's slap-up that nosotros've got to this point in streaming music marketplace where users know what they can get for complimentary. They're going to have to suffer through some advertisements and everybody understands that, and they're willing to practise that at one level. There'due south some other group of users, much smaller, that will pay for the convenience of not having to listen to those ads. Premium's another attempt to get people to pay a little bit more for a little flake more control.

That's right.

What are the things that are going to drive people to say pay $15 a month, or $xx a month, which is sort of where the manufacture needs to make it club to exist sustainable.

Right. This something we talk about with our partners on the label side quite often, is what is the menu look like in the future? It'southward interesting to look where we've been. The $10 tier has been around for a long time. I call back using Rhapsody Premier when I was a grad student a long fourth dimension agone, 12 years ago. The free service is built underneath that. I recollect what nosotros've seen is that just those two options aren't enough options. Pandora Plus, $4.99, has been doing tremendously well of addressing ... It'south not just ad free. That's kind of a misconception. There'southward a lot more than there; existence able to replay your favorite songs, listening to music on an plane, things similar that.

Which is huge. The reason I didn't move to Pandora earlier is because I commute every twenty-four hours and I'1000 underground and I need to heed to music. I need to be able to capture the stations. That feature alone was make or intermission.

Yes. Have you tried that in Pandora Plus?

I have, yes.

Nosotros call information technology predictive offline, where nosotros don't even force you to cull the stations. We only automatically determine what the correct music to have offline for you and we refresh information technology every fourth dimension you connect with the server; very elegant, very effortless implementation of offline.

That tier for sure has a place in the menu. The $10 tier, which people are familiar with, for sure has a place in the carte du jour, as exercise things similar family plans and student plans. Getting people in in a different way to try it. We've a actually innovative trial with Pandora Premium where, if you're a Pandora Plus user, one of the $4.99 people, similar you, you can try Premium for six months at no extra accuse. You're seeing a lot more than innovation across the board with unlike pricing and different trials. The question is, what would be the thing that would get higher? Certainly in that location'due south been some attempts to practise that with Lossless Music. In that location'south some services that are trying to go $15.

Not a lot of successful services.

Not a lot of successful services there, so we'll come across. We're kind of on a await and see on that one. We'll see how information technology goes. At that place's been a lot of studies that prove, unless yous're plugged in to some really high stop audio equipment, that extra flake rate isn't really doing y'all that many more favors cause information technology takes up more infinite on your phone. It eats up your bandwidth, all that stuff. That'due south i choice. You could imagine that, $15.00 for HD or something like that. I don't remember information technology's going to be that. I think it'll be something more. Is there boosted benefits? We ain a ticketing company. Is in that location some additional benefits where we tin bring in other parts of music, the alive feel somehow? Perhaps if you're on an annual plan, which is beneficial for us for a lot of reasons, is at that place a way nosotros can bundle in some live experiences? Things similar that.

I think yous'll see some innovation there. I don't recall the things yous've seen yet are the ones that are going to piece of work. Certainly the music industry wants to keep growing this bill of fare, so for every user there'due south ... option is skilful, and for every user there'southward a plan for you lot that works. Nosotros'll see where it goes.

I ever felt all my music services know that I'm a large fan of Lucero, one of my favorite bands, and yet in society to detect out when they're playing I need to type the names into a search box and find out when they're coming in my neighborhood, so I miss them because I don't pay that much attention. The radio station should tell me. They know that I'grand into this ring.

Totally.

I would be grateful for them to requite me, start of all, just to tell me that they're playing, and then to give me disbelieve or allow me go into the testify early the mode Amex does.

Right.

Chris Becherer

It merely seems like there'southward a lot of opportunities there.

Yes, and we're really thinking about that very securely right at present. We bought Ticketfly, which is a huge ticketing service. They have a ton of awesome venues beyond America. We are testing a bunch of different things. 1 thing that we at present have in the app, which I could show you, is if you go to the artist folio in Premium of your favorite band, and they're on tour, we'll give y'all a little notification that they're on tour and we volition allow yous really route through and purchase the ticket in a spider web view without leaving Pandora.

That'south kind of a start. We actually did something similar at Rdio just we have much bigger plans of how we can really kind of integrate that Ticketfly data that we have in all the Ticketfly service into the Pandora experience. I totally agree with you. Nosotros will start sending you lot notifications. We're already doing that a little flake today, merely we've got more plans for that. When the band announces a tour, if it'south somebody that we remember you like, nosotros'll send you a notification. Like you said, that's a existent value add together advertizing. Information technology's kind of like an advertisement just information technology'southward helpful information likewise.

The trick is different artists will play in different venues that are run by different promotions companies, so it's not like everything goes through the same pipeline. It'due south a lilliputian hard sometimes.

Every dealer has to be cut separately.

Everything's a little unlike. We're definitely working on information technology. We want that. I mean, I want to do more things too where we're bringing dorsum some alive experience back into the product. Let's say you get see Lucero show and you love it. Nosotros'd love to take a gear up list waiting for y'all in Pandora Premium the side by side day. We're thinking about a lot of cool ideas like that. Again, the Ticketfly integration really helps. We started with some simple notifications but you're going to come across that get a lot more interesting.

The other matter we have that we love, nobody else is doing this, is something we telephone call artist audio messages. What artists can do, and we have actually a tent across the street where we're having artists come in and record these, artists tin can, using the Pandora app, the same Pandora app that we take, they have some different buttons that they're verified artists, they can record a bulletin into their telephone and information technology could be annihilation they want, simply usually when they're doing it is when they're on tour. They tin geo target that bulletin to play on their station only for users that are listening in those areas. If they have a tour coming up, they're like, "Hey, Portland, we're coming to y'all next week. Come up bank check us out." The listener is hearing that artist's radio station and then the creative person is peppering in, from their ain voice, a message for, an advertizing essentially, for their show and we don't charge them to do that. That's just something-

Y'all're just bypassing local radio stations. All of those processes just get taken out and they tin talk directly to their fans through Pandora.

Exactly correct. What could be more than directly? It's literally telephone to phone. We go some really, really cool artist messages that are about the songs that the artist wrote, or most how the band was formed, things similar that, but nosotros're seeing more than and more for shows and the creative person can really embed a link so, while the user is hearing the audio message, the user will see a link that would drive to purchase the ticket. If it's a Ticketfly venue it can all happen right in that location without leaving the now playing view. It's coming together but it's but a complicated ecosystem to become all the different pieces in place.

Interesting. Yous're the product guy. I think one of the about interesting things to happen to streaming music is that it'southward been enabled by these phonation driven interfaces in the abode, Alexa, Google Dwelling. Pandora'due south on all these platforms, usually at launch, which I gotta remember is a huge advantage considering y'all're building that user beliefs and those habits, and that's really a infinite that, I mean you could always use a Bluetooth speaker and transport your signal to your speaker, but it'due south a lot easier when y'all simply ask information technology to play Billie Vacation, and information technology starts playing Pandora'southward Billie Vacation station.

Exactly. Super exciting. The success of the Echo has actually simply been very interesting to picket. Plainly that's more a device, that's a platform, and you run into all the unlike Alexa integrations that people are picking upwardly now. We're very, very interested because radio, at that place'due south so many situations where something like that pairs really well with radio, when you're driving. Driving has always been a really tough challenge for the streaming designers. All of us in the design community that accept been growing upwardly with streaming music, cars ever been really tough because, of course people want to listen to music in their car, but no one wants to be twiddling around with little buttons and there's regulatory issues, and do y'all do a totally different UI? What'southward the right affair to practise in that location?

I matter that really, actually helps is voice in a car. LivingRoom, I retrieve is really like, is yous're in the living room, you don't always have your phone on yous. You're playing music collaboratively with your family unit. That's just some other place-

That collaborative nature is also something that didn't really exist before.

Correct.

Chris Becherer

It was concluding based. One terminal, one request and now people argue, the genres switch from song to vocal.

Who owns the Alexa? Who's Alexa listening to? Yeah. Exactly. I call back that music is such a great category for those types of devices. You're going to see a ton of innovation there. You're exactly correct. We're getting a ton of listening on those platforms. CE in fact, Consumer Electronics is our fastest growing category of platforms. It's really, actually taken off in the last couple years. I think what will be interesting, cause the knock on Echo and Google Dwelling and some of these devices, is the audio quality isn't all that great. For a lot of users that doesn't matter. We were talking about earlier, loftier end bit rates, that'due south a niche thing, but I do think that in that location'south still a pretty big departure in sound quality from something like an Echo to something like a Sonos.

What I think will be really absurd is when we start seeing voice and quality come together a bit more, where you can have a organisation that's really effortless, actually like shooting fish in a barrel to utilise, pulling your Pandora all of your stations, all your personalization, and it sounds neat. I think we're going to see that very soon. That's very heady, just huge category for us and one yous'll see united states of america go on to invest in.

All right. I desire to be respectful of your time. I've got a couple more questions. These are my standard questions I enquire all my guests. In terms of looking into the future, what are y'all most concerned about in the music manufacture and in the streaming industry? What are the things that keep you up at night? I gotta remember it's about licensing.

Really, yeah, that is one of them. One of them is certainly information technology'due south a very competitive market. It's a competitive market that we're facing some big boys. I worked at Apple for a long time. I know how powerful some of those players are. I actually believe that Pandora has a different arroyo. The fact that we've been able to build up a hundred million quarterly actives that are listening and engaging with the app more than whatever other service, there's something special there. I really practice recollect the same affair that fabricated it special in radio is going to make information technology special in on demand and I inherently believe that on demand is a really wide mass marketplace opportunity. Not anybody thinks that. It's like, "Oh, how many people really going to pay for it?" But when y'all really empathise the value of all the globe's music at your fingertips, organized in ways that are useful, that works on many devices, that are really ubiquitous; I mean $10.00 is a very fair price for that. I feel very bullish about Pandora's chances in that location, simply competition is tough.

On the licensing side, you lot're right. There is some fears at that place a little bit, simply because we accept a lot of power in the hands of a handful of labels. They're crawly partners. We actually enjoyed working with them, but it is a different type of production to build when you lot take a stakeholder like that. There'southward three or four different companies that we really need to be in cahoots with, where if you lot're building a photograph sharing app you don't really take that extra stakeholder. So they are a partner, only too a stakeholder and it's one that we take to ... Information technology'south a new musculus for Pandora to learn how to work together with an industry like that. We'll run across how that goes. So far it's been off to a great start, only that'south something that we're all going to accept to continue to abound into.

If you had one service production or gadget that you use every mean solar day that's totally changed your life, what would information technology be, not including Pandora or Rdio?

I wish I had a more creative answer but ride sharing services and apartment sharing services, I remember have actually expanded what the on demand economy can mean. I alive in San Francisco. Pandora's over in Oakland. More than times than I should, I'thousand taking a lift over, an Uber over there and I just recollect information technology's been fascinating to watch that transformation. We don't take those services here in Austin, and yous really feel that cutting off feeling of non beingness able to become around.

What nosotros do have here is Airbnb and in that location'south a grouping of u.s.a. staying in this awesome Airbnb downward the street that we'd never have found before those types of services. I'm interested in watching that whole category, whether it's transportation, or accommodations, or parking, or apartment rentals. I retrieve there's a lot of interesting things that will happen in that on demand, oversupply sourced, shared economic system.

Very cool. If listeners want to get in affect with y'all, follow what you're doing, following what Pandora'southward doing, how can they observe you online?

You can find me on Twitter, find me on all the socials. It's ever my final name. I've got an unusual last name so I kind of own the space there. Information technology's just @Becherer on Twitter, Becherer on Facebook. I take Becherer pretty much everywhere.

Chris, Thanks so much for taking the time. I appreciate it.

I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

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